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Forum:Gun Blade (please read before commenting)
I know the title is going to draw a lot of "MH =/= FF" flamers, but let me point out that this is just n idea that suddenly popped into my head when reading the "extreme weapon customization" article that I felt compelled to write down, and nothing more. Please don't hate me for this. The idea is for a Blademaster weapon class, the Gun Blade, formed by combining separate components, like the Bowgun in Tri. It would have its own unique moveset, with the whole "gun" thing being either part of certain combos (i.e. shooting straight ahead at the end of the normal combo, or ending an "upward slash" combo by shooting straight up), or as a standalone attack (less versatile than Bowgun or Gunlance shots) It has three parts: the Blade, the Gun, and the Hilt, each determining certain stats. The Blade is the main component and determines Attack and Element power, sharpness, Affinity, range,(short, medium, and long; short is just a tad longer than an SnS, and Long is about as long as an SA), and possibly whether it deals Strike or Cutting damage (but probably not; maybe only certain special blades would have strike damage, with some sort of trade-off). The Gun primarily determines what kind of "shot" you get; long: just a normal, straight shot with decent range; Burst: a shotgun-type shot with less range; Bomb: shoots small grenades that explode after a set time, and possibly could stick to targets. medium range, but affected by gravity. Additionally, the Gun can change the stats of the Blade, such as by raising Element in exchange for Attack and vice versa, or raising Attack in exchange for Sharpness, etc. Finally, there's the Hilt, the key component of the Gun Blade. Each piece has a certain "compatibility" element (still haven't fully worked out how to do this yet), and the Hilt determines what combination of Blade and Gun types you can use by accepting only Guns or Blades of certain "compatibility" types. It also may raise or lower the weapon's Affinity. On top of all this is, of course, a "weight" system. The total weight of all parts determines the weight of the Gun Blade (light, medium, or heavy), which simply determines attack speed. Light is just slightly slower than an SnS, Heavy is between SA and GS in slowness, and Medium is about the speed of an LS. Weight may determine effectiveness of blocking if I decide it should be able to block. And... that's it. No flaming, please; if you don't like it, please say so politely, and feel free to give reasons why and/or criticism. If you do like it, you're free to say that, too and possibly give constructive criticism and suggestions, but please no repetitive, half-page long rants about how epic it is due to similarities to some other game franchise. Frankly, I'm not sure what to think of this idea, myself. Cobalt32 01:10, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I like it. Seems a bit complicated, but then again the game has Bowguns and Gunlances so it would fit. SethOmega 02:01, March 18, 2011 (UTC) Yeah,bowguns are complex as shit,so what difference would another complex weapon type make? Anyhoo,I love the idea Cobalt.Good job.Sounds like it wouldn't be able to block,as that would essentially make it a Gunlance.Also,I have a suggestion: since a weapon can't really have more than one element,maybe the stock would determine the element.CrellinEtreyu 04:47, March 18, 2011 (UTC) @Crellin: Thanks. At first I thought maybe blocking would only be available with certain parts, but could be disabled by some other parts, but then I didn't know what the block button would do if you didn't have block. Plus you're right about the Gunlance thing. As for the element part, at first I thought maybe the blade would determine attack and the gun would determine element, and some parts could raise or lower the values of the other part, but now the blade has its own complete set of stats that the gun modifies (doesn't change type, just numerical values), and the hilt determines which blades and guns can be used together. Still need ideas on how compatibility should work, maybe each part has some kind of slot shape that it can fit into, like circle, square, and triangle?Cobalt32 16:47, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Uhh... how about pressing R (PSP) puts that thing into shooting mode or something like that?? or R triggers the gun or sth like that... @Crazy: I don't think there should be free shooting on this; that's the Bowgun and Gunlance's job. I felt shooting should just be incorporated into normal combos wit no manual firing, but I guess manual firing could be plausible provided you can only shoot straight ahead and can't aim, so you can't rely exclusively on shooting. That said, no block.Cobalt32 17:42, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Hmm.. yah, probably you are right...probably it would b better to make it either in combos or no firing, because with the gunlance you cant really aim... but what to do with the R button?? i mean, every weapon has some special function... @Crazy: Maybe R reloads? Idk... I guess it could fire manually with R, but the recoil and auto-reload would make spamming it inefficient, and instead you would use it to start a unique melee attack combo. Cobalt32 17:52, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Hmmm, you mean like the LSs thing? @Crazy: Not exacly; R just fires on command, and you can use the recoil to lead into an attack combo.Cobalt32 18:01, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 lol,kk, didnt get it at first... well, english isnt my first language, so sometimes i cant rlly grasp things... anyways, would prolly be a nice idea... something like: *shoot, recoil, downslam, pull up and... well, idk anything else* :) @Crazy: Exactly. Maybe follow up the ground smash with an advance/upward slash attack for GBs of Medium weight or lower, while Heavy just ends with the downslam? Cobalt32 18:14, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Yeah, something like that...d'you have any designs in mind and/or can upload them as pics? what are yall talkin bout how, bout you read the topic, ordo? @Crazy: Sorry, I can't draw very well. As a basic template, the Blade is... a blade, with a space cut out near the base where the gun fits in, the Gun is, well, a giant gun that attaches to the blade (haven't decided whether it should be on the cutting edge or the non-cutting edge), and the Hilt has the hilt and a bar or frame that keeps the Gun and Blade in place. Haven't completely decided on particular weapons, though... Cobalt32 23:52, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I like this idea. Unlike the other Gun Blade ideas, this is actualy more Mh-like. Just like what I read in this wish. It can be Light Gun blade, Medium Gun blade and Heavy gun blade. Now, this is how I see it: The blade comes in 3 sizes/weights: small/light, Medium and Large/Heavy. The small blade's weight is 10-30, the medium blade is 31-60, and the heavy blade is 61-80. The gun has a fixed weight of 20. So a gun blade can be light if its weight is 30-50. It will be medium if its weight is 51-80. And it will be heavy if the weight is 81-100. The gun has 3 varieties: Bullet, Shot and Blast. Bullet is like a Bowgun bullet. Shot is like a gunlance shell (but kinda bigger) and Blast is like a Lg barrell bomb exploding. There is a limitation when using bullets. Whenever you use bullets, your gun heats up depending on what bullet-type you are using. The hilt determines what Blade weight can be combined with a gun-type. This is just an example so you can understand how hilts work. So if there is a starting gun blade, The info on the hilt will be: Blade: 10-60 Gun: Bullet This will mean that you can only use a blade that has a weight between 10 and 60, and you can only use a gun that uses bullet-type shots. As for combos. I guess Triangle will trigger melee combos and circle will shoot bullets. R will reload. And Triangle and Circle together will make your melee attacks be imbued with the bullets in use. Using bullets, again, will make the gun overheat and unable to use. So you have to wait for some time until you can use bullets. Wow, i wrote alot :D Sincerely-KaiserLos 10:21, March 19, 2011 (UTC) Lol, yeah, you did...anyways, i am really not sure about the manual shelling, because that would make some sort of a GL only without the blocking ability...- Crazy @Los: I kinda already settled that sort of stuff, but you still have some interesting ideas. Yes, there are 3 GunBlade weight types, Light, Medium, and Heavy, all with the same moveset, but at progressively slower speeds and slightly different animations. I planned to already have the melee combos imbued with bullets, perhaps as a finish to the combo, but your version gave me an idea: the two attack buttons perform melee combos, and at certain points in the combo you would fire automatically, but you could also press R to perform a special combo that mkes greater use of bullets to add more power, but fills up your heat gauge very quickly. Also, it would be the only part of the Gunblade's moveset that changes between weight classes: Light: Fire forward (and recoil) -> down slash -> forward rising slash -> lunging down slash (boosted forward by firing behind you) -> repeat Medium : Fire and recoil -> down slash -> forward rising slash -> fire upward (where your blade points after the rising slash) -> repeat at downslash Heavy: Fire and recoil -> down slash -> repeat If you are overheated, you will not be able to perform the R combo, but allow me to add that the R combo generates a lot more heat, which takes much more time to cool down than normal firing. Think of it as LS spirit gauge in reverse. Once overheated, the gun will be "jammed" until the gauge empties, so no shots will be fired, regardless of what attack you perform. I was thinking you could also take minor burn damage for the duration of the overheat. As for shots, I already had some ideas, but some of yours are pretty good, so here's the new roster: Bullet: Fires a single round, like a Bowgun shot, but bigger and more powerful (remember that you can't rapid fire Gun shots). Has long range. Rapid: Fires 5 bowgun-type shots in quick sucession. Slightly weaker than Shot unless all bullets hit. Spread: mid-range Pellet shot. Wide: GL-type Wide shot. Burst: Short-range explosion, like a Large Barrel Bomb. Bomb: Shoots a grenade that detonates after a set time and sticks to monsters, but is affected by gravity and doesn't fly far. Finally, about compatibility, at first I thought there should be a kind of slot system, where the blade has one or more "shapes" of tabs that require a blade with at least the requisite slot type to equip, but I think your "weight limit" idea makes more sense. Maybe the Hilt also can only accept certain kinds of guns, but the Blade might disallow some kinds, as well. I was also thinking there should be at least some minor variation in gun type weight, maybe shot and rapid are 10, spread and wide are 15, and burst and bomb are 20. Cobalt32 17:28, March 19, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Slight change of plans: instead of the whole "heat damage" thing occurring when the heat gauge is full, there's a certain point on the bar that, when passed, causes it to inflict burn damage, and the gun doesn't jam until the bar completely fills, and won't be usable until the bar completely drains again. Cobalt32 21:12, March 19, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Just a thought I had, should repeatedly tapping R make it just shoot repeatedly (low refire rate and inability to change direction of shot makes spamming inefficient), but tapping R, then a normal attack button, followed by more R would make it do the whole "gun-booster" combo thing? Either way, prolonged use would still take a toll on your heat gauge... Cobalt32 19:09, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Seems overly complicate to me to have all those things in the same weapon and having to look through them all to get it how you want it to be. And I think we should focus towards more "different" hybrid weapon types. We have the Gunlance, which is a blend of gun + lance. We have the switch axe, which is a mixture of GS + LS (more or less). Both have special, distinctive attacks. There are enough things with a gun attached right now IMO. Ohmpahkan 20:03, March 20, 2011 (UTC) @Ohmp: It was inspired by the concept of having a Blademaster weapon that uses interchanging parts like the Bowguns in Tri. It's not really as complex as this large article makes it; the Blade has the base stats, the Gun determines what kind of shot you get and modifies the stats of the blade, and the Hilt alters affinity and determines what Guns and Blades can be used at once. The whole weight class thing just determines attack speed and what your special "R" combo will look like. Cobalt32 20:11, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 On second thought, I'll keep the shooting as secondary as possible so it doesn't overlap with the GL. Cobalt32 12:40, March 21, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I think the gun should have a fixed weight. The whole thing should have a max weight of 100. But maybe the weight of the blade can be altered so you can have different gun weights. Anyways, maybe the R button Does different combos according to weight that has its very own special attack. It should vary according to the weight. The light GB should do the combo. The medium GB can rapid fire bullets, and at the end, a round spirit slash like the LS. And the heavy GB can do 2 slashes, then do something like GL's wyvern's fire. And as what Ohmpahkan said. There should be other hybrids other than ones that have guns on them. Maybe a SA counterpart. Maybe an impact weapon? Or something like a lance/blade? I don't know. But if you guys wanna post something about this, put it in another page. Don't put it here, It'll go off-topic. KaiserLos 13:50, March 21, 2011 (UTC) @Los: I guess that could simplify things by making the weight class depend exclusively on the blade, but then again, I still think the gun type should still affect/be affected by weight class... maybe only certain weight class blades can accept certain gun types, so only Heavy blades can accept Bomb and Burst guns, and Light blades can only accept Shot and Rapid guns. Ohmpakhan does have a point, but the Gunblade's selling point wasn't necessarily supposed to be the gun/sword combination thing, but rather the fact that it's composed of interchangeable parts; the idea of a "gunblade" was just the first thing I could think of for that concept. Cobalt32 18:28, March 21, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 -LOVE IT!!! I totally dig this idea man. i love the GS, LS and DS so would be good if the bladers had the choice of firing a shot too. How about: Shot (single shot, Charged or uncharged)> Spin slash (from recoil)> Vertical spin downwards slash> Thrust> Double shot (recoil> double back dodge / recoil> shart combo again like LS) and with the new weapon charge of LS from MHP3 to increase power of shot. Maybe create larger element ball around shot with every power lvl charge up ( non>white>yellow>red) {Drake Hunter} 01:40, March 25, 2011 @Drake: Um... nobody said anything about charge shots... also, due to the whole "heat limit" thing, firing shots should be used sparingly in normal combos, like one shot in the middle of the combo, then one at the end. If your combo idea was for the R "Burst boost" combo, I could consider using that as the Light class combo attack. Cobalt32 19:51, March 24, 2011 (UTC) Actually, charging shots might not be such a bad idea, but only certain guns would have it. Pro: more powerful Con: generates more heat Cobalt32 23:52, March 24, 2011 (UTC) Pardon the bump/necropost, but I just found a good comparisonfor what this weapon was supposed to behave like. For those of you who have played Samurai Warriors 3 and are familiar with the character Ieyasu Tokugawa, you may have noticed that he carries a large weapon that is capable of firing cannonballs near the end of his combos. This is kinda how this GunBlade is supposed to work, though it may also be fired manually or mid-combo. For those of you who don't know either game or character, it's a little something like this: http://youtu.be/5HM1PXJHAXs Hope that helps. 01:01, June 10, 2011 (UTC) I am compelled to say this idea is great, well thought out, and a glory to fans of both series. The only issue would be copyrighting "Gunblade" as the weapon term. Darbster 20:10, October 1, 2011 (UTC)Darbster Thank you! I'm pretty sure Gun Blade isn't copyrighted, though; I've seen other non-Square Enix game series have weapons called "gunblades". Cobalt32 20:41, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Pardon the necromancy, but I just had a thought: should each gun have a different heat gauge size/heat tolerance level? Example, one gun might have a long gague but reach the "painfully hot" point relatively early, while another has no "painfully hot" point, but jams quickly? Cobalt32 (talk) 19:02, August 31, 2012 (UTC)